Tell me about your relationships with Al Regni and Dave Thomas and a little bit about how the commissioning came about.
Al Regni has been a mentor of mine for a long, long time. He is such a great and well-rounded musician and he is somebody I encountered in New York very early on.  I worked with the New York Philharmonic with Al. I did a lot of sessions, jingles, and television music with Al. I played in big bands and Broadway shows with Al, you name it. He is somebody who I learned an awful lot from. Al formed a quartet called The American Saxophone Quartet and I wound up playing tenor saxophone in that group. I think the way the story goes is Al knew Dave Thomas. Al had actually taught lessons to Dave Thomas. Dave Thomas is some sort of investment banker who had access to funds and was very interested in starting a commissioning project for new works. Just as luck would have it, Al thought of me and thought it would be great if I wrote something for saxophone quartet and orchestra. Al also had a working relationship with Leonard Slatkin and the National Symphony Orchestra and thought that might be a good orchestra for this situation being that Leonard is very open-minded and that orchestra does all sorts of different things. That’s basically what happened, they approached me and it seemed like a really interesting and exciting project and I went for it.

Tell me about the experience working with the National Symphony Orchestra, did you get to spend much time with them on the piece?
Yes, I did. I attended, I think, three or four rehearsals and four performances, so I really got to be in on the whole process. I can’t say enough about Leonard Slatkin, he is such a pro. He really knew what to do with the piece and the orchestra as well was very proficient about assembling this thing. It was really a great experience.

Do you feel like the premiere with the orchestra went well?
I think it went pretty well. I learned a lot about what to do and what not to do. This piece has some issues involving rhythm and groove that you would typically find in jazz music. One of the problems I encountered with the National Symphony Orchestra was that the percussion section was spread out across the stage. It was impossible to move them all together since they had other pieces on the program and they had a set way of doing things. The biggest problem was getting the rhythm section, if you will, as in all the percussion players, and the bass instruments to line up which is so critical with these sort of latinesque bass lines. There were issues there that never quite got resolved. I think we’ve actually got a handle on it for this wind ensemble performance and it seems like all that’s gotten a lot better here.

Tell me about your relationship with Rick Hirsch.
Rick Hirsch I met through Miles Osland (Saxophone Professor at the University of Kentucky). He copied several things I’ve written and seems like a very caring, proficient musician. He’s a good writer and saxophonist himself.

Have you two ever collaborated on anything before?
No, not really, no. Other than him copying things I’ve written, no. This is the first time and I think he did a splendid job. He knows orchestration and was able to make the translation from symphony to concert band.

How long did it take you to write the piece?
I think it was a couple of months. I wasn’t sitting in a room only writing this, but I spent a couple hours a day for a couple of months because I was busy writing other things, working, and traveling and all that I do.

Were there other things that you had started to work on that you ended up using as a part of Rhythm of the Americas?
No, not at all, I just started from scratch with this.  I had some general ideas. Typically when I write a piece like this, I just think of a general outline, maybe three or four movements, different shapes, possible tempi, ideas, and intent. Then I try to find some themes, little sections maybe, and little ideas. I start broad and start getting more specific with each run through.

Where did you get your thematic ideas?
From my head! I guess whatever’s up there is the result of the bands I’ve played in, the music I’ve listened to, and the harmonic and melodic concept I’ve developed over the years.

How did you go about composing the piece? Did you use the piano, computer software, or your saxophone?
When I wrote Rhythm of the Americas I hadn’t gotten Sibelius yet, so I just penciled the score paper. I believe that I sat at a piano, but I’m not sure how much I used it. I used it for some voicings and things like that, but basically I tried to imagine these shapes in my head and write stuff down.

I’ve noticed through the rehearsals how great of an ear you have! Are you able to just hear the things in your head and just notate them down?
Over the years…you know, there was one project in particular where I really was able to fine tune the ability to hear inside the music. Listening for the detail in music is such an integral part of becoming a consummate musician, composer, whatever. This one project I did, which was to produce a CD called “TV Tunes” and I had to recreate forty television show theme songs note for note and all I had was a cassette of these television show themes. I really had to listen inside to get every last note and recreate these very accurately. As a jazz artist, when I listen to records, I really listen to all the details. I might listen to the drummer several times to see what he does with his ride cymbal, to see what he does with his snare drum, and to see what he does with his high hat, you know,  all the little pieces. I’ll listen to the piano player and the way he voices chords. With a wind player I listen for articulation, for dynamics, and for vibrato. If you train yourself to think that way, it becomes second nature.

Everyone always talks about your French Style. What is a French Style to you and how do you incorporate it into this piece?
I don’t profess to be an expert on French composing by any means. I’ve played and studied the Ebert saxophone concerto. I’ve played some Eugene Bozza stuff. I’ve played some things that are French in nature, French saxophone music so to speak. Having played in saxophone quartets I’ve had some exposure to some of that music. And in some general way, I have assumed the shape of the lines and the feeling of that music. The thinking with Rhythm of the Americas was the French were such an integral part in the formation of the United States. The French came here as settlers, as did the British and the Spanish, so you know, there were these different influences which ultimately influenced what happened in the United States.

Of course I have been working on an analysis of your piece and I have found what I believe to be a lot of interesting things. One question that I have to start is, do you compose with a particular form in mind?  
Yeah, you know, not in any classical sense. If anything, it’s more like a jazz or popular music of the twenty’s and thirty’s form where you have an A section, perhaps a B section or a bridge, and a C section. It’s some convergence of jazz and classical music where you might have a recapitulation, a developmental section, a coda or something. It’s by no means a studied sonata allegro form or anything close.

That’s exactly what I felt. It seemed like it was a combination of the two. In my analysis I talk about a two-note theme and a three-note theme and how everything relates to those themes. Do you think there is any validity to that?
Well, I’m not sure how many notes there were to each theme, but I’m definitely a thematic writer. I like to have themes that are reoccurring and somehow use connective tissue in music. It gives the ear something to lock on to. And no matter what kind of music I write, I am thematic writer. I borrow from classical counterpoint in some way that’s fairly nonspecific, but I’ve experienced that music and try to take what I can from the shape of it without being that well versed in it. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not.

Well when I was talking about a two-note or three-note theme, I just had to fix a label to it. The two-note theme is found in the opening riff in the trumpets and the trombones.  The three-note theme being found in the saxophone melody is also found in the flutes and in other places.
Right! That’s true! Now that you mention it, yeah, well I think I do it in some non-aware way. I find as an improvising saxophonist I do the same thing.  I wind up trying to take a compositional approach to improvisation where there is really a connection between the things I play, so, yeah, most definitely.

In the Afro-Caribbean movement, it sounds specifically Afro-Cuban. Are there other influences involved in that?
Rhythmically, yeah, all the way. It’s sort of a Songo kind of feel, a certain kind of rhythm. There’s also like this 12/8 African feel that occurs at one point in the piece. You know, it’s sort of again my quirky combinations.  I feel like Aaron Copland somehow was an influence, Gil Evans, and things to do with Miles Davis was a big influence.  One thing I’ve always wanted to do was to take an Afro-Caribbean groove and put things more orchestral in nature on top of that.  Typically, in Latin music, there is both brass and saxophones or in the Charanga style there is violins and flutes.  It’s generally pretty intense and rhythmical, versus textural.  I was trying to borrow some of the textural side of orchestral writing to superimpose on this little Latin beat.

About the Latin beat. I knew African Cuban was there so I started looking at Afro-Cuban styles and stuff and noticed you’ve got variations of that incorporated in the music. Do you try to improvise that style, because it’s not strict? For example, the son clave rhythm is definitely there, but it is sort of a jazzed up version.
No, it’s not strict. I’m sure a real studied, experience Latin percussionist would have something to say. It depends who you talk to, though.  Adherence to the clave really varies from player to player. You can stay close to it and make the thing swing a certain way without necessarily absolutely adhering to clave. I did this Latin Big Band record called “Latin from Manhattan” and there is stuff on there that certainly gives a nod to clave, but definitely goes beyond it and incorporates other kinds of rhythm. I like to incorporate various rhythms so it’s not strictly one thing or another.

Did you compose the sax quartet separate from the orchestra or did you compose everything at the same time?
I pretty much did it all at the same time.

How do you think this quartet compares to the other quartets that you’ve written?
It’s similar. I think I used similar devices.

Do you have a favorite one that you’ve written?
No, not really. I just try to keep going. I don’t look back. I try to make each one cover different areas and try to find some other things to write, that I haven’t written yet.

In Jazzical, this one has been the most difficult for me to analyze, it’s trying to find a connection between the pieces instead of thematic ideas. It seems to me to be almost through composed. Every section has its own character.
The idea was to give each of the four saxophonists a chance to play a lyrical melody over a different accompaniment. Although in the concert band translation it’s not quite the same because in the orchestral version the alto played with muted strings, the tenor played with brass, the baritone played with woodwinds, then the soprano again played with the strings. I liken it to a ballad in jazz music. I mean that’s really what it was. That was the inspiration that was the template.

I have to ask of course about the part behind that adlib part behind that alto. It sounds like a Debussy-esque planing that is going on there. Is that just something that came to you?
It’s the result of things I’ve heard and music I’ve played. I really absorb things, maybe to a fault sometimes. When I play in an orchestra, a sax quartet, a big band, whatever I really on some unconscious level absorb certain aspects of the music. I find that when I try to write something there’s that influence there.

In Confluence, what really strikes me is the whole Brazilian Samba influence. What experiences have you had with Brazilian Samba because this section is almost identical to standard Brazilian Samba, Partito Alto in particular?
I’ve played Brazilian music forever. I worked with a lot of Brazilian bands, played on a lot of Brazilian records, there is a lot of Brazilian music in New York. I was always a big fan of Brazilian music.

Is your training just from experience?
Yeah, it’s just from listening and playing. I’ve owned a drum set for many years. I’ve sat down and figured out how to play many Samba beats on it.  The idea of having the saxophones and percussion kind of trade off, the whole Samba thing actually comes from this fellow named Bernard Hoffer who is a very fine composer.  He actually wrote the theme music for the McNeil Lerer report.  I actually worked for Bernie in New York and did a lot of commercial writing.  He’s a wonderful serious composer.  He wrote an amazing piece for concert band and saxophone.  Anyway, In that piece there was this samba-esque section and I thought that was really cool, and I thought I’ve got to do something like that. I guess I did it differently, but I definitely borrowed that idea from Bernie Hoffer.

Tell me about your approach to harmony.
I played in a band led by a great jazz composer named Thad Jones, and he had a certain way of dealing with harmony that really had a big impact on me and has affected all my writing. I also felt a very strong attraction to the music of Igor Stravinsky. That has had a huge affect on my harmonic conception. It’s jazz harmony.

When you first started composing, did you have any formal training?
 I wish I had. It’s just something that I’ve always done. I’ve always been interested in writing little songs. At first in jazz and rock and roll situations and later had the opportunity to write for orchestra and saxophone and then wrote the sax quartets. The bulk of what I’ve written is in the jazz realm and I would say most of that is for the big band. I’ve been very lucky to have opportunities to do some of these other things. I love orchestral music. I’ve always enjoyed playing in orchestras. The challenge for me is trying to bring to the orchestral table what I’ve been doing in the jazz world and have these two worlds meet in some sort of sensible way where it’s not clichéd or you know just a train wreck, or kind of a mish mash, but something that actually stands up on its own. I’m still working on it though.

How do you think the band version compares to the orchestral version? Are there some things you like better than others?
What Rick did for the most part successfully was he added euphonium and flugel horns in places where the strings played, and for the most part it works. There are a couple of places where I have to go back through it. It just seemed that flugles and euphoniums have more intensity particularly up high and was obscuring other things in the arrangement that needed to be more predominant. I think overall there is a certain bit more of a percussive nature to woodwinds and brass versus strings that lend the concert band instrumentation to more of a swing situation, you know there’s a little more of a percussive quality to the music by the concert band, which I like.

How did you feel about the UK performance?
I was very happy with it. I think that band did a great job, the quartet sounds wonderful. Just a couple things to iron out, but basically I think we’re in the ball park. It sounds really good.

Is there a chance that you’ll write another orchestral piece or even another wind ensemble piece?
Oh yeah, I’m pretty excited about the whole wind ensemble thing now that I’ve sort of had a hands on experience. I didn’t orchestrate for this particular project but just being there and sort of hearing the sound and checking out the way the instrumentalist play the music. It’s sort of given me the courage to try to write something. I mean I’m thinking now I’d try to write something for tenor saxophone and concert band.

Do you think all your compositions will be somehow saxophone related?
I would also just like to write something for concert band, but you know I love to play. Generally the first things I think of when someone says you know, write something that you want to write, the first thing I would generally do is write something that includes my playing. I think it would be such a gas to really use the way I like to play as an organizational tool into writing something, and it could be a cool thing.

I noticed that you are making a lot of changes are you going to redo things and come out with a final version and get it published?
I’m not sure. I have to consider this carefully. I really think, given my reputation as a jazz writer, that people would be interested in playing this piece.

Well thank you so much for your time.
You’re welcome. I’m honored that you would think to pick my piece for your dissertation.

Well it was a perfect situation for me, with UK doing the premiere and both you and Rick being on campus.
Well good luck and let me know if you need anything.